Talk:Socrates
Ugly fucker, isn't he? Turtle Fan 03:36, 12 June 2007 (UTC) Good thing he had brains. TR 04:19, 12 June 2007 (UTC) Literary Note Since the literary note simply spells out what is pretty obvious to anyone who has read the story and has a basic grasp of history, I'm not sure that the note is necessary TR (talk) 15:17, September 5, 2013 (UTC) :Agreed, though didn't Sophocles also transcribe and editorialize Socrates? I believe he took a far dimmer viee of the man than Plato did. Turtle Fan (talk) 19:26, September 5, 2013 (UTC) :I think it is a pity that Turtledove did not in any way make this point in the story itself. This might be the most signficant long-range result of the changes introduced in this timeline. Essentially, the Hellenisitic Age is launched two generations ahead of achedule, by Alkibiades instead of Alexander - this might not make so much of a difference over the long range. But Western philosophy without Socrates and Plato would be something quite different. Aristoteles might still come around, but without the earlier two his philosophy would be substantially different. I think it was a bit negligent of Turtledove to just ignore this aspect. Blaise MacDuff, the Purple Dragon (talk) 20:34, September 5, 2013 (UTC): ::I got the sense in this novella that HT wanted to sidestep the long view and focus on the immediate. Two of the other three novellas with which it was published did much the same. Turtle Fan (talk) 04:29, September 6, 2013 (UTC) :::This. It's a work of fiction, not a treatise. Any choices HT makes are for artistic reasons, not academic ones. HT hardly "ignored" the painfully obvious fact that Western philosophy will be different without Socrates and Plato. Presumably, he didn't feel a further exploration within the four corners of this story to be an appropriate one. TR (talk) 15:47, September 6, 2013 (UTC) The Hot War I'm not sure how to adjust the Lit. Comm. since I did add the new sub-section. I think it is more than a fleeting reference and so justified. Incidentally, Curtis seems to be amazingly well versed in the classics for someone who is 20 and had joined the army at 18. He is too young to be a West Pointer too. Might possibly have something to do with the author I suspect. ML4E (talk) 20:29, January 26, 2016 (UTC) :Yeah, Cade's an odd fellow. I always thought HT gave him too many traits that didn't hang together. :To the main point, I really don't see much harm in removing the lit comment, if the section will remain. Turtle Fan (talk) 23:40, January 26, 2016 (UTC) ::I don't think the THW section is very significant. There are similar refs to Socrates' life and basic philosopher in numerous other HT works. See recent discussion on Moses.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 10:45, June 18, 2016 (UTC) :::Now that you mention it, I'm leaning that way myself. Turtle Fan (talk) 13:08, June 18, 2016 (UTC) ::::We can probably modify that section and move it to Cade's page, e.g., "Cade was educated in the classics, and was able to discuss Socrates with his CO." TR (talk) 16:07, June 18, 2016 (UTC) ::::I don't object even if I was the one that originally added it. ML4E (talk) 17:40, June 18, 2016 (UTC) Socrates' OTL death Apparently the form of execution by poisoning was common in Athens. I've always wondered how exactly did that work as a practical matter. The incentive must have been something like "Drink it, or we'll kill you." There's an obvious logical flaw there.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 07:27, July 12, 2016 (UTC) :Perhaps they threatened you with a far more painful death if you refused? It would also have been possible to tie someone down and force-feed them, though that's not what happened to Socrates--at least, not in the version of events we've inherited from Plato, assuming that was completely accurate and not embellished at all. Turtle Fan (talk) 14:15, July 12, 2016 (UTC) ::There were probably also threats to family and property. And based on your tone, TF, I assume you are being a bit sarcastic. Nonetheless, we have reason to believe that Plato did indeed embellish. He wasn't there when Socrates died, for one thing. And nobody who ever ingested hemlock died as peacefully as Plato said Socrates did. TR (talk) 14:23, July 12, 2016 (UTC) :::Yeah, I don't have any trouble believing Plato's version of events was somewhat . . . idealized. Turtle Fan (talk) 00:39, July 13, 2016 (UTC)